[S4E12] Now You See Me, Now You Don't

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And I, you know, I'm looking at my list of all the questions that I have prepared to ask him, I don't think I'm gonna get to 10%. I have a feeling that he's the kind of guy that we can have on the show, you know, every other week for the next year and still barely scratched the surface. And so having read fireproof, having read other things that he's put out there, anticipating being able to interact with him is going to be great. On a happy we've got some new hires joining our firm, I think things are starting to look up for us on that swing. I know we talked about it on some prior shows. So why don't we do this? Why don't we? Why don't we do this? Why don't we take a quick break. We're going to hear something from the crisp people write about their upcoming conference. And when we come back, we're going to have John here from fireproof, and everybody wins here at the law firm. Brooklyn. Sounds good. Sounds great. Awesome. We'll be right folks. Well, I'm rushing because I'm loving. I can't wait to get John up on the screen. We'll be right back, folks. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with you here on the Law Firm Blueprint.

[S4E12] Now You See Me, Now You Don't

Well, the reason I wanted you here is we rebrand his law firm, law firm blueprint and Jay is known as Mr. systems. And I wanted you guys to be able to come together and geek out we're going to talk about fireproof, and its involvement in the National Trial Lawyers, business of law seminar in Arizona a little bit. But we don't want to get some time with you here. We have a lot of audience made up of small and mid sized law firms. And not all of us have the DNA of systems first, a lot of us serve, I had the entrepreneurial bug. So I was like, hey, try this, it works, we'll do more. And that, you know, for a lot of people listening, the thought of putting systems in place is scary, because there's so many things that need to be systematized. What I'd love you guys to start with is discussing, where do you get the most bang for the buck? Where's the low hanging fruit that you might want to go to first? Because you think about everything at once. It's overwhelming for where do you see as you've now coached dozens of law firms, the greatest impact the quickest.

One I can trust you in a second. But why do you think that is in the sense that it is so important? And you're right, it's not the shiny, it's fundamental. It's people over and over again. But what why didn't lawyers just have again, it's that I've been guilty of it over the years and good and bad and good. Why is it that lawyers don't naturally go there?

So I think if they understand the why, why you're doing things, it goes a long way towards them, accepting the process. And I haven't met somebody yet that has shown up and says, I'd like to do a really bad job today, I'd like to not make a difference. So I think if you explain to people, here's what we need you to do, here's why it's so important and how you're having an impact. They'll understand why this, this task that you're asking to be completed, why it should be done, and they will adopt it much with much greater success. So I think that's, that's part of it. And I think that, you know, there's two different things. One is if you're having turnover every six months, what's going on, there's there's some other cultural problem that has nothing to do with your process. And yes, it's great to have process in order to be served as the basis for a great training program. And having a process is great, so that you can know what metrics to put in place to ensure that you can audit things to ensure that everything is in fact being implemented the way you want. But it's a little bit scary to hear that there's chronic turnover. I'm not saying it's always going to be perfect. And we've had plenty of turnover in our intake team. But Tony's been with us as our intake lawyer for 12 years. Lloyd Laura is an intake attorney. She's been with us for eight or nine years. We have others with similar long, 10 years. So I think too often intake is a it's a burnout job. It's, it's here's how I enter the firm. And as soon as I'm good, I will be promoted out of intake. And that is nails on a chalkboard, to me, the most important thing that happens at your law firm. Amongst the most important I'll just I'll back off so they don't get anybody. That's some lawyers out there yet. Amongst the most important things is your intake. Why on earth would anybody ever be promoted out of the most important area? It is a reward. It is a huge group of competence to be trusted with the incredibly important task of a job.

Fantastic question. We have tried all three. We have a bit of all three going on right now. We have a large firms who have a lot of calls. So we have internationals, we have lifers. And we have newer people, always when we hire a newer person, now, we we are not looking at it as I want you for two years, and then I'll rotate you out. Because you're going to burn out. Well, we tried to do a good job of we don't always get it right. But what we try for us to find that lifer. We don't want someone who's using it as a stairstep. We want. And to my surprise, there are people that never burn out on it. I'm a natural introvert. I couldn't imagine talking to clients all day long, every day and have a series of five to 15 minute phone calls all day. I couldn't imagine anything worse. Now, contrast that with the intake people and ask them would they be interested in my job? They couldn't stand it. And I think that's the whole beauty of it is that if you, if you have someone that's burning out in the job, then you're asking them to do something that they're not a natural fit for?

Well, and so so is there have you found any testing any personality traits? That will not just say they'd be good at it? Because we have people that are great at it, but they don't want to do it for more than two years? Yeah, versus, you know, is it a situation we joke about this a lot like schools that people go to Don't, don't aim too high? Are there certain ones where the person might be amazing, but they're really a salesperson that's going to want to commission track at some point away from your world, versus, you know, somebody who will stay with you in the law firm ethos, you know.

Well, I mean, think about that. I mean, you can have a starting quarterback in the NFL, who, you know, who is running a five second 40. But everything else works. And you know what that's, you know, that that's I don't think he's Tom Brady, but you get somebody who can perform at an exceptionally high level, even though they can't necessarily, you know, blow people off the starting blocks when it comes to running. So I mean, when you look in the aggregate, I think that's what you're looking for with these people. But John, let me ask you a question a little bit more when it comes to intake, because I'm fascinated by the intake process. We spend a lot of time working on that I want I don't want to get away from systems. But when it comes to intake, are there particular KPIs that, that you say, are non negotiable KPIs that, you know, because one of the problems is, is that as lawyers, you know, we have a tendency to say, Okay, we're going to look at absolutely everything. But I think as business people, as entrepreneurs, we can maybe find three things that matter. Or maybe even one thing that truly matters, and focus on that KPI or there are on intake, have you found things that actually matter to your team, and what are those?

And I don't want to go down a rabbit hole. I was telling you about Inbound referrals, where you're getting it from other highfalutin sources that that you're that I was shocked that our percentage would drop compared to marketing, where they don't know us what for the touchpoints we put online close rate was significantly greater.

Yeah. We only meaningful difference that I've seen is is actually from lead generation companies where you know, if somebody searches for and we don't use lead gen for what it's worth not, we just haven't. But we have somebody is searching for Mike Morse. And they call Mike more than we've got a really good chance of getting them signed, because they asked for us. But if they respond to some generic wording or AD and then we say Hi, we're Mike Morris, well, they've already heard of us. And they chose not to call us in the first place. So our likelihood of landing them is probably going to be less.

So for me, when it comes down to bang for your buck, what I what I think a lot of people start to realize as they scale is that they finally have dollars that they can put into digital marketing. And they abandon the traditional ways that lawyers gets cases. And that's through having relationships and that type of thing. If people were to take 10% of what they're spending on digital, and spend that on their referral based business, you know, I don't know I'm not going to speak for, for Mike Morris's firm. But I can tell you that my best case is historically over the last 25 years have been cases that were referred to me, they are the highest paying the easiest to close the clients that were easiest to work with the best revenue, and some of the most challenging cases that actually gave intellectual satisfaction to us as as criminal defense lawyers here at my firm, and I think that a lot of people start started, they start off looking for referrals, and then they quickly exit that and say, I'm just gonna throw all my money into digital marketing. But I think that that it's in today's legal economy, you are missing out on a great opportunity to actually have a system in place for developing those referrals, rather than just letting them happen by happenstance. That's my that's my thought.

Todd: I don't think The Americans is going in for that old Hollywood chestnut of, "Your work might seem more pressing, but it's your family that needs you most," but it's in that ballpark. This is not a series that goes in for showy direction, but shortly before Oleg is about to go and make his deal with Stan, there's a quick wide shot of him standing in front of a mural of Lenin, with the Glorious Leader facing one way and Oleg another. It foreshadows what he does, but it also suggests something at the show's core: Connections are more important than causes, and the worst thing you could do is exploit them. 041b061a72